Cellular Agony

Dealing with Phone Companies

Archive for the ‘Our Emails’ Category

BLACKMAIL

Posted by Paula on December 26, 2010

Elie is on the phone with Orange. They are now offering to open ONE line so that they can talk to us. They will not open my son’s line (Orange closes a soldier’s phone). They will not open Elie’s phone (he’s a volunteer for the ambulance squad).

My son’s fiancée is calling because she can’t reach Shmulik and is worried. She’s been trying for hours to reach him. After more than three hours on the phone, Orange has offered us a compromise: pay 10,000 NIS in up to 18 payments, and we will open the lines.

That is blackmail, Elie says. Simply blackmail. We have been asking for months for a representative to come and explain the bills. We do not know who owes what. Perhaps when you factor in the huge amount they took from us in the early months, against the monies they promised from the beginning, perhaps they owe us money.

Certainly, they have no idea – and there is no reason, until we meet, that we should have to pay this – other than blackmail – and that is what this is.

They told us if we pay them their blood money, they will open the lines until mid-January and within that time, they will meet us. Of course, they have been telling us that there will be a meeting for months.

Tomorrow, our fight begins. Orange has no idea of the wrath of a soldier’s mother. You do not cut off a soldier’s line without cause – and this was without cause.

Four hours on the phone, more time wasted. This is it.

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What happened to Sunday?

Posted by Paula on December 14, 2010

It’s Tuesday here in Israel. A beautiful day outside and yet another day Orange failed to call as promised.

Here’s today’s email – sent to direct@orange.il

—————

December 14, 2010

We spoke to someone last week on Sunday after our phones were suddenly shut down and we couldn’t make outgoing calls. We demanded that the lines be turned on IMMEDIATELY and that we speak to a manager. The phones were turned on within minutes, but a manager did not call us as promised.

I demanded to be released from our contract because Orange has violated our trust, forged my name, refused constant requests for service. I was told by Yishai that someone would answer my request in “4-5 business days”. The fourth business day was Thursday. The fifth business day was Sunday. The 6th was Monday. The 7th was today, Tuesday.

WHEN will be get an answer. We want the contract canceled IMMEDIATELY. We are willing to return ALL phones. We believe that Orange should take their phones and cancel all outstanding invoices and release our numbers back to us. We will contact Cellcom, Pelephone – even Rami Levy – ANYONE who can give us better service than the agony we have suffered from Orange.

I have posted all our emails on our blog – Cellular Agony: http://www.cellularagony.wordpress.com and will continue to do so until the agony ends! Please just let us OUT.

Paula

 

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Premium…Where are YOU?

Posted by Paula on December 11, 2010

In the middle of the mess with Orange when they suddenly cut off our phones, I got this email from my husband who was working onsite for our company and was suddenly unable to make outgoing calls.

Sunday, December 5…

Hi Paula,

I cannot make any outgoing calls.

The last time I spoke with Orange they said that someone from Premium will
contact me to resolve all the issues. This actually puts us back to where
we were back in February 2010, except that they wasted our time and gave
us work. Unfortunately they made us write reoprt for them, with a
committment that they would also make efforts. Unfortunately, they made NO
EFFORTS to resolve their thieft.

The last person that I spoke to was Eliezer, who called me to tell me that
I will be contacted by Premium. Obviously, Premium does not want to get
involved in this Orange mess. Their service number associated with this
call is 282613484.

Let me know if you can reach Orange to get the lines open. This is ridiculous!

Lazer

Well, my son and I frantically called Orange, wasted more time on the phone. My son threatened that if the phones were not open in 5 minutes, we were going to the police for fraud and lawyers to finally try to reclaim some of the massive damages caused by Orange’s ongoing actions. The phones were opened in three minutes flat.

I spoke to Yishai, who said there was nothing he could do. He could not put someone on the phone to help. He could not explain the bills. He could not resolve anything. I told him I demanded a phone call back from someone who COULD do something. I told him we wanted OUT of this horrible service, this horrible contract, this horrible AGONY.

He said it would take 4-5 business days. This was last Sunday and obviously, according to Yishai, that day didn’t count in his reckoning. So…Monday, Tues, Wednesday, Thursday. Thursday or Sunday, Yishai said.

Thursday came and went – no call. It is no Saturday night in Israel – will Orange call tomorrow? Will Premium EVER get back to us? At this point, I am sure God knows – I doubt Orange does.

And so the agony continues.

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You Can’t Say We Didn’t Try

Posted by Paula on September 5, 2010

Yet another email to Carmit after yet another week passes by with Orange ignoring their promises and commitments. We received another bill, of course, but once again, no one is ready to explain what the heck they are charging us for.

In the meantime, several people have commented – hey, even Orange people have told us this – that we should be suing Orange for hundreds of hours we’ve wasted trying to get them to explain, correct, justify – anything.

Latest calculation – my husband, sons and I have spent well over 600 man-hours trying desperately to get Orange to follow their commitments, explain bills they had no right to send us, money they had no right to take.

At this point, my husband (the vast majority of those 600 hours was his), has high blood pressure, frequent headaches and no answers. So we are throwing this open – if you know a lawyer who can help us, please write to us – leave a comment and we’ll contact that person. We are tired. We are fed up. We have been ripped off and most of all, we think that not even Orange can figure this out.

We want out. Take your damn phones back – including the one we paid insurance for and you won’t fix. Take your computers back – including the one that CAME broken (HP confirms this has to have been delivered broken). Just take it and go. Honestly, please just release us from slavery, from another 1.7 months having to deal with what has to be the most God-awful company in the world!

Here is today’s email – yet again – asking for Orange to do what they said they would.

From: Lazer
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:46 PM
To: ‘direct@orange.co.il’
Subject: RE: To: Carmit Sikorel

Hi Carmit,

Since our last conversation, I have not heard from you, Adi or anyone else. I have sent the list of telephone equipment you requested to Adi.

I do not know if I told you, but Adi did not go over the bills with me, as you expected. This is an open issue that was requested from the beginning; and without it, we cannot identify the problems. Is the old bills irrelevant? If not, when will you send someone to go over the bills? I asked the same question to Adi.

The last time I tried to get the bills reviewed , I was told to go to your center, However, your manager at the center said they cannot give me service and called the police.

What is the next step? When is our next meeting?

Thanks,
Lazer

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Well, Optimism Yes, but

Posted by Paula on August 19, 2010

As I indicated in my previous post, Orange called us back! This was the first time I had actually spoken to Carmit – previously, it was all by email and my husband’s conversations. I’d emailed them, of course – including one on August 4. I believe they promise to get back to you within 24 hours, perhaps 48. I can honestly say this was the longest 48 hours of my life!

Now, 15 days later, Carmit writes back. I can see she is as enthused as I was and yet…and yet, I’m confused by what she means. She “was glad to learn, that i could offer you a proposal to your satisfaction.”

What proposal was that? What advanced Orange services? I mean – getting back to a customer, even 15 days later is great, but I wouldn’t call that “advanced” services. We still cannot speak on our cell phones in portions of our home because there is no reception. This despite promises from Orange almost NINE months ago that they would give us a Repeater Device (hope that’s what it is called) – which would enable us to have reception.

I’m all for optimism, really Carmit – but I’m just so confused by this concept that you thank me for an email two weeks later and think that in light of a single conclusion-less conversation that we have reached the proposal state.

Ah well, life with Orange is nothing if not interesting…

Here’s Carmit’s message of August 19th.

—————————

Dear Paula,

I thank you for your e-mail.
In reply to your request, and after our conversation on the 19/08/10 I was glad to learn, that I could offer you a proposal to your satisfaction.

For further information, please reply to this e-mail, or contact our customer service center by dialing *054 from your orange handset, or 074-7054054 from any other phone, and one of our representatives will be glad to assist you.

I hope you will make the best out of orange’s advanced services .

kind regards,
Carmit
Customer Relations
http://www.orange.co.il

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Progress? A Journey Begun?

Posted by Paula on August 19, 2010

Can a starved person understand that a feast set before him is actually for him? Can a blind man suddenly given site handle the many views the world has to offer? sounds melodramatic and yet this is to some extent where we find ourselves.

Orange actually called us back! Can you imagine. We are in the hands of two women working for Orange – Adi and Carmit. They seem as confused by the Orange bills as we are. They seem as interested in resolving it as we are.

I cannot speak for what they know – but for the first time, they are actually asking US to explain rather than telling us what they think might have happened.

They want to know what equipment we have – an excellent first start. This is indeed the first step in determining how Gal and his cohorts managed to take 16 Cellcom lines and turn them into 66 Orange lines.

The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Resolution of 8 months of lies and dishonesty begins with a single line. Line by line we must understand what Gal did, how Liron and Eliron and Anat and David and Meital and Shelli and so many others covered it up and get to the truth of what we were promised.

Since we are speaking in such platitudes, I’ll continue – we stand on the edge of a new dawn with Orange. It could be yet another storm, yet another direction for lies and deceit. We must have answers to how it was acceptable to forge our names; how things we did not order were put under our name? Who handled the SIM card that we never received and yet thousands of shekels in phone calls were made?

Why were we charged top rates after being promised lower cost because we were so many phones? Why did Gal begin charging us for things he gave as promotional gifts?

How did he take 16 phone lines and multiply that into 66? Seventeen lines have miraculously dropped away…what of the others?

On and on – this is a long journey. It is one we will have to take before it is resolved, before we finish with Orange – or before we take them to court. The journey begins with a single positive note. Orange actually called us back!

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Customer Relations…Not

Posted by Paula on August 4, 2010

Yet another email after yet another lie from Orange. Another meeting scheduled and not met. Customer service called us after receiving one of these emails. They understood, they said. They were surprised by how badly things were being handled, they said. They wanted to help us, they said.
They would set up a meeting this week – get someone from “Top Business” who would be “neutral.” Okay, I admit, I was wondering how exactly someone who works for Orange could be considered neutral, but we are anxious to end this and so we agreed.

Then they called back and said, not this week, next week.

Now they simply aren’t calling back. Needless to say, Top Business hasn’t called back. This clearly doesn’t say much about their customer service, but then again, we have yet to see much good about their sales, their accounting, their honesty so, what’s another failed department?

Here’s today’s email – August 4, 2010 – Still Agonizing

Three weeks ago, after hundreds of attempts (emails, phones, meetings, etc.), we were FINALLY contacted by Customer Relations and told that we would get someone they called neutral to review all the problems in our account and attempt to finally resolve all the open issues. We were told we would be contacted shortly – it took a full week before anyone contacted us. They said they would set up a meeting…they canceled that meeting and said it would take another week.

They told us NOT to speak to Eliron or the Jerusalem Business offices but that someone from Top Business would contact us…it is now three weeks in which we have still waited. On Monday, someone called my Lazer and said they would call Binyamin to move this forward. Surprisingly (to none, actually), they did not call. Sadly, it appears that your Customer Relations department is as serious as your Jerusalem Sales office, your Jerusalem Business office and your Givat Shaul center. We are still waiting to hear how Orange will resolve all the money they took from us, the fraud they committed and the mistakes in all the bills. In the meantime, if perhaps you are missing some of our old emails, please feel free to catch up on everything on a special blog we have opened in your honor.

It is called Cellular Agony – for all the agonizing attempts we have made to deal with your various people – from Gal, the lier, to Eliron, the procrastinator, to Meital, Liron I and Liron II, Anat (who managed to give birth twice in one month), to Eliav (who threatened to use confidential information from our account for personal reasons), and on and on and on.

Still waiting for Orange…still agonizing, 

Paula

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Still Trying to Remind Them

Posted by Paula on August 1, 2010

It has been almost 8 months since an email was sent to Gal detailing the points of our meeting. Here we send it again to yet another Orange representative. Meanwhile, we have miraculously been credited for about 17 telephone lines. Let’s see….we started with 16, Orange turned that into 66, and now we are down to only 50. Maybe we are getting somewhere….maybe….

Email sent to Customer Service (an internal division reacting to our endless emails and requests). We’ve now been told to give up on trying to get Eliron to listen, never mind the most elusive Gal.

We are now, once again, being told that “Top Business” will contact us…the ball is firmly in Orange’s court.

————————-

Hi Carmit,

This email is one of the emails we discussed. It was written before Orange identified that there was fraud done by their sales people.

I wrote this as a method to complete open issues. See the completion dates.

You should have several copies of this email. Copies of this email were sent to several people in FirstClass, Premium and Top Business departments.

I have sent many emails to various people at Orange. Since you are not the person that will resolve the issues; I do not want to burden you, by sending over a 100 old emails.

In the meantime, just in this past week, we have identified additional cases of fraud performed by people at Orange.

I understood from you that Monday (tomorrow) I will be contacted by someone from Top Business that will help identify and resolve all issues. I look forward to fixing this mess and moving on with my life and business.

Thanks,
Lazer

(Email from January 17th)

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Another Call for Service

Posted by Paula on July 23, 2010

I sent another email today. I believe now that this will end up in court and when it does, we will show the court how many times we resolved it. Orange cannot claim we did not want to pay them. Orange cannot claim we acted in bad faith.

Email after email begs them to explain their incompetence, their endless errors. The meeting with Eliron was a joke because he won’t credit us for the mistakes he knows Orange has made. He admitted Orange’s errors. He said if Gal worked for him, he would have fired him long ago.

It was a long and sometimes frustrating meeting with Eliron. My husband has spent, literally, hundreds of hours trying to get Orange to rectify the problem. Eliron did not want to listen – all he cares about is the bottom line and how much money he can get out of us. All he cares about is making sure Orange doesn’t lose money and therein lies he problem. It seems that what Gal promised us to close the deal and bring in the business so he could get a commission and make himself more money was so outlandish, Orange refused to stand by it. They quote contracts we never signed – and lies Gal tells. For example, if we signed a three year contact with Cellcom, they did not charge us for the equipment. In other words, we were not charged for the phones, but they made their money so long as we guaranteed a monthly minimum.

Gal made the same offer – and then charged us a higher monthly rate AND the equipment. He gave us, as a gift, two iPhones…we never signed for them, but Orange insists that we pay for them now. On the other hand, we signed for one iPhone for someone else, but there is no record of that signature, so Eliron now says Orange isn’t charging us for it. We showed him the iPhone, he checked the bill, but the phone serial number is not there.

He was angry, but cannot charge us – yet another Orange failure, but at least this one went in our favor.

So, here it today’s email – written of the frustration of yesterday’s meeting…a worthless waste of time. Eliron sent us to “any” Orange service station. My husband and son chose the one in Givat Shaul. They refused to help my husband.

Sent: July 23, 2010

תוכן הפניה:
We were told by Eliron of the Jerusalem Business office to go to any Orange office and they would explain our bills to us. We were told by Eliron that he would credit us for the many errors Orange has made on our bills.

We were told, for example, that the computer we received broken and which HP agrees shows no abuse and was clearly broken when we got it…would be credit to us. We were told that Eliron would meet with us to explain your billing.

And yet, again and again, Eliron simply lied or is not someone who can follow through with what he stated. He said in our meeting – we have three witnesses – that Gal Morad would be fired if he worked for him for all the mistakes and incompetence on our account.

One SIM card we never received somehow was given or acquired by someone who, according to Eliron, sounds like an Arab and so he says, he doesn’t believe Gal took it and yet, we never received the SIM but were billed for thousands of NIS.

Again and again until after begging Orange personnel to simply explain our bill, we wrote several emails stating that we would have to cancel our automatic payments if you could not explain why you were taking the money. No one, to this day, more than eight or nine months after we began begging for this simple thing – something Gal told us would happen on a regular basis…we finally canceled the auto-payments. We are willing to pay the bills…if you would simply tell us – explain to us, what you are charging us for.

To any normal human being, this sounds completely reasonable and yet, again and again, Eliron and others tell us to PAY FIRST and THEN figure out what we are paying for. How can we pay if we don’t know what we are paying for? Isn’t that a funny question and yet Orange continues to ignore our simple request.

So here is another – Please set up a meeting with us to explain WHAT you are billing for and then we will be happy to pay. In the meantime, as per many people’s advice, we seem to be at the next stage.

So…

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March 12 – Seriously, Anyone There?

Posted by Paula on March 12, 2010

This was sent by email to the representative who promised us she would be our personal contact. For 24 hours, we had a direct connection, as promised. This is typical of most business customers – you dial the code from your phone and get directed to your customer representative. We had this at Cellcom…we were told, promised, we would have this at Orange. It worked…for 24 hours after repeated requests to get this engaged. After 24 hours and that wonderful meeting in our offices…it stopped working. Thus an email from my husband.

Also, when we first spoke to Gal, we heard music. No, literally. We heard music on his connection and he said he’d set this up for us too. He didn’t tell us there was a cost. Luckily, Orange sent us a warning that we would begin being charged for it and were able to cancel it on most phones. This is their FUNTONES…if you are lucky enough to know that it costs.

———March 21 – Is anyone there?———————–

Hi Liron,

Since you have not got back to me in over a week and you have cancelled by ability to call any business representative, including you, I can only assume that YOU purposely CANCELLED my ability to enter *4141 from my phone. IS THIS THE WAY ORANGE DOES BUSINESS????

I received a message about FUNTON. I do not know what this is. I do not want to pay for this if there is a charge. This applies to all phones that WritePoint has at Orange.

PLEASE HAVE SOMONE THAT CAN HELP CALL ME.

Lazer

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